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This Troy Tulowitzki injury update sounds horrible

As the Blue Jays wrap up Grapefruit Ball and head north for two final exhibition games in Montreal prior to the beginning of the 2018 season, Troy Tulowitzki waits in limbo. The 33-year-old shortstop will begin the season on the disabled list and it was suggested he could be back by the end of April.

It looks like that estimate might have been a little optimistic. I think we’ve reached Act Six.

To give everyone a quick refresher, this began at the very beginning of spring training when it was reported that the veteran shortstop had bone spurs removed from his heel and it wasn’t an issue. Minutes after that, it was reported that he was dealing with a bone spur in his heel and that he might have a delayed start to camp. A few days later, John Gibbons praised Gift Ngoepe and said he he could be a good replacement if Tulo started the year on the DL. Then, finally, it was announced that he wouldn’t be ready to start the season. (It’s all broken down here)

And now, we have the most recent update from Shi Davidi:

“I don’t think I’ve made much progress here in spring training just because I came in, honestly, with the expectation I’d be ready by opening day,” he says during an interview. “That was the goal, and as I was going along that just became not a possibility because of certain tests I was put through and I was still having some of the pain and some of the issues. We had to kind of back off, regroup a little bit, put together another plan, and that’s kind of where we’re at right now.”

That doesn’t sound that bad. He expected to be ready for Opening Day, as we know, but it didn’t happen. But oh boy, it gets worse…

At the moment, this is what Tulowitzki and the Blue Jays know about his ankle: The ligament tear and compression fracture that occurred when his foot clipped C.J. Cron’s heel as he stepped on first base have healed, but those injuries are believed to have triggered more pain from his pre-existing bone spurs. Those bone spurs, which he guesses he’s had for the past 3-5 years, caused discomfort, but never the type of unbearable pain he feels now when running, the prime hurdle between him and a return.

We’re just a few days away from the beginning of the season and Tulo is feeling unbearable pain when putting weight on his foot. There’s clearly a long way to go before he’s going to be in condition to trot out there and play shortstop every single day, let alone play effectively.

We know that Tulo is an intense competitor and it’s probably killing him that he can’t start the season with the team. While he isn’t the same MVP-calibre player he once was in Colorado, Tulo is still obviously an important part of this team, both as a player on the field and a leader off of it.

He’s no stranger to this as he’s dealt with multiple major injuries over his career. He’s dealt with a quad injury, a wrist injury, a groin injury, and he’s had hip surgery. Obviously the older you get the more difficult it is to come back from injuries.

He says he feels optimistic about it…

“I know I’m not invincible, I know things can happen that you can’t control, but I do like my chances,” says Tulowitzki. “I know I’m a fighter. I know I’ve been through some things before and answered them. And another thing, that’s the only way to look at it, right? I’m not going to get through it, trust me, if I’m sitting here talking to you saying I’m not quite sure I can do this. The only way I’m going to make it happen is if I’ve got a positive outlook on it, like I can do this.”

… but still, it’s becoming very clear that the Jays are going to be without their starting shortstop for quite some time. Hopefully Aledmys Diaz and, uhh, Danny Espinosa are ready to carry the load.

  • Nice Guy Eddie

    ALEX’S LIL NINJA: Hey it’s all good! Those Colorado Rockies are really kicking themselves for not having the chance to pay $20 million a year, year after year, for the rotting corpse of Troy Tulowitzki! Plus, Tulo played 41 games for us before going on the DL back in 2015, chipped in his 89 OPS+ and could stop runs for those 41 games better than the guy we’d just traded for a short time before. Plus, who ever heard of an organization actually drafting and developing a shortstop themselves, so they’re not so desperate as to spend $100 mill on 41 games of 89 OPS+? Not our previous front office obviously. A great trade!

    REST OF US: Thank you Alex (clap, clap, clap clap clap).

    • Regulator Johnson

      Tulo over Reyes is the difference between playoffs and not in 2016. I’ll take that deal any day, regardless of how the next few years go. Not making the playoffs for 22 years kind of sucked. I’ll take every opportunity possible thanks anyway.

      • Nice Guy Eddie

        Actually, I would take a GM who could draft and develop a shortstop, unlike what we had from 2002 to 2015. And paying $100 million for a guy to play one year shows how out of touch some are.

        • The Humungus

          So, then you like the current regime, right? Since Shapiro and Atkins was involved in setting in place all the pieces that drafted and developed Lindor?

          Sometimes you can draft the right guys and they turn into the wrong guys. There’s no formula for making a prospect good, because it depends as much on the prospect as it does on the org.

          Remember, Travis Snider was a guy who was supposed to “contend for multiple MVPs” who had nothing but peak-Giambi comps.

          And Carlos Delgado was a catcher and a left fielder before he stuck at first.

      • stevevd

        you’re assuming that Reyes would have been the SS in 2016 if the trade had not happened. If the Jays don’t trade for Tulo, they DFA or bench Reyes instead and you could have replaced what Tulo gave you for a much lower cost in terms of dollars and prospects.

    • Abogilo

      Point taken. The trade has not worked out well by most definitions. Some people will argue that we would not have made the playoffs without him, others will argue that it was a bad idea all along and we should have run away from the warning signs that were obviously there.

      It sucks that the trade didn’t work out perfectly – but can we just get over it.

      How about we take a new spin on this…
      What are you trying to say by pissing all over this trade?
      1. Never get anyone expensive?
      2. Never get anyone old?
      3. Never get anyone with injury history?

      Can we make this an exercise to weigh the merits of eliminating a subset of players based on “warning signs” against the risk of missing out on potential available talent?

    • DAKINS

      The Jays were not making the playoffs in 2015-16 with Reyes. It just wasn’t going to happen.

      This was always the risk when the trade happened. The back end of Tulo’s contract wasn’t pretty even if he was on the field every day.

      I don’t know why people are acting like the Jays went into that trade with their eyes closed.

    • The Humungus

      *yawn*

      Don’t you ever shut up about this?

      Trade worked in 2015. Suck it. Flags Fly Forever.

      Plus, are you really lamenting the loss of anyone who Alex traded to make 2015 happen? Shit, it looks like the best player he traded was Kendall Graveman.

      The contract sucks. We get it. We all know this. We still love the trade. And the 3 run bomb Tulo hit in game three of the ALDS that basically kick-started the comeback when they were down 0-2 in that series.

    • Sammy the Bull

      You know Eddie, based on the snark and cynicism that underpins the bulk of the comments that you post on this site, I’m getting the sense that you actually are not a nice guy…

        • Sammy the Bull

          Jose Reyes had become borderline unplayable at SS by July 2015, but because he was Jose Reyes the politics of the situation demanded that he continued to play if healthy (recall Gibby would not even remove him for defensive purposes late in the game).

          So in order to remove him from SS you had to remove him from the team, and in order to that another bad contract had to come back to us. You could also make the case that the ‘name’ coming back had to have enough stature in the game to sell the deal to a clubhouse that was already somewhat skeptical of the front office’ motivations (chiefly the lack of activity at the 2014 trade deadline).

          At the time the deal was made my view was that Tulo > Reyes right now, but that in a couple of years we would be bemoaning the Tulo contract just as much as we were with Jose at that point.

          And guess what? That’s pretty much what happened. Tulo solidified the SS position defensively in 2015, and though he didn’t hit much at all in the regular season he did have a couple of big swings in the playoffs. His 2016 was solid (130 games, 760 OPS), and if we could get even a facsimile of that (115 games with a 740 OPS?) for the balance of his Blue Jay career I would sign for it right now.

          AA was going to get fired if the team did not make the playoffs, so I have no doubt that he took some big swings in July 2015. But the swings that he took — solidify the defense at SS and LF, and put a stud at the front of the rotation — were exactly what a team with the Blue Jays run differential required at that time.

          So I’m not sure what your underlying goal is here — to prove AA wasn’t perfect? Who the hell says he was? He did some good and some bad — just like every GM. But I don’t think the Jays would have made the playoffs with Reyes as the SS in 2015, and you are not giving Tulo enough credit for his 2016. 2017 and beyond? This is not going to be pretty, but then again it is the only bad contract we have on the books, and it wasn’t tough to tell that this would be the case at the time the trade was enacted.

    • Abogilo

      I cant believe I am responding to this again, but I think it is worth saying…

      In those 41 games where he put up only an 89 OPS+ he was worth 1.5 WAR. (0.6 OWAR, 0.9 DWAR)…. that projects to roughly a 6 win season over 160 games…. even if you say he was with the jays for half a season, he was still playing at a 3 win pace with his injury.

      Over his underwhelming Blue jays career, he has been worth 6.1 WAR for approximately $50M – which is less $8.2M per WAR. So he has been a positive value player for the jays compared to Free Agent $/WAR.

      https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/tulowtr01.shtml

    • The Sausage King of Chicago

      At first glance, I thought Eddie should just join the crowd on the sportsnet pits of hell comments, but I guess he can be an “individual” here!

      • Nice Guy Eddie

        Tulowitzki had next to nothing to do with making the playoffs in 2015. Getting rid of Reyes, who Alex had just traded for was a good move, but Tulo added little. He went on the DL after 40 games and luckily for us Goins’ stepped in and played better. Tulo had a shitty OPS as a Blue Jay in 2015. And it’s pathetic to claim that any expenditure, no matter how bad it is, is ok because in 2015 they made the playoffs.

        • The Humungus

          How did Goins “play better”?

          Tulo had better defensive metrics in his 41 games with the Jays, and a higher OPS+.

          Show your work, man. Prove Goins > Tulo

          • Nice Guy Eddie

            Sure Humungus. Easy to do.

            Goins’ bat came alive one time in his career so far, the second half of 2015. Surprised anyone doesn’t remember this but his second half split is here.
            .274/.361/.387/.748. OPS +123

            That’s >>>>>> Tulo 2015 as a Blue Jay.
            .239/.317/.380/.697 OPS+ 89

            Anyone with a brain can see which is better.

            It’s somewhat surprising that all the guys who think that wasting $100 million on a corpse is anything other than a terrible move because “OH! OH! 2015! 2015!!” don’t seem to remember 2015 very well.

          • The Humungus

            You’ve proved nothing.

            Goins had a 152 WRC+ in August of 2015. 91 in September/Oct.

            Tulo got hurt on Sept. 12. and was carrying a WRC+ of about 82 at the time.

            Yes, that’s worse.

            But, by all metrics, Tulo was vastly defensively superior at shortstop to Goins in 2015, which makes up for about a 10% offensive difference when you’re talking about two below average hitters. Tulo’s UZR/150 was 34.4, while Goins was 7.8 as a shortstop (25.7 at 2B)

          • Nice Guy Eddie

            Poor Humus. Unable to be right on this point, and unable to admit when he’s wrong. As I said, Goin’s played better than Tulo in the second half of 2015. Demonstrated. Done. We would have been better to just eat Reyes’ contract (that Alex had just acquired, along with the corpse of Josh Johnson), play Goins, keep Hoffman et al (better still, have drafted Trea Turner when they had two opportunities in 2014) and avoid being stuck with this albatross contract that no one in baseball wanted except the front office that didn’t draft or develop any infielders.

          • The Humungus

            Goins hit like a madman at 2B in August.

            ” Tulo added little. He went on the DL after 40 games and luckily for us Goins’ stepped in and played better.”

            Goins did NOT play better at Shortstop in 2015 after Tulo got hurt. Which is your argument. Right there. Quoted from your own post.

        • Barry

          We’ve had this discussion … the discussion about team building, etc. You’re cherry picking one trade out of a set of trades that resulted in the Jays making the post-season, and you’re evaluation the GM on that one trade. It’s pathetic to have to cherry pick — THAT is what is pathetic. You can’t find a way to shit on the work that was done to get to the playoffs, so you shit on one move, taking it out of context. That’s not just pathetic, it’s intellectually dishonest.

          And before you come back with your usual “you insulted me” whine, keep in mind that you were first with the insults. But I’m sure that won’t stop you from the crocodile tears and the “poor me” act. Troll away, troll.

          • Nice Guy Eddie

            The only trade that Alex made that had any bearing on making the playoffs was the Donaldson trade. I’m able to criticize him for his horrible moves – the Syndergaard fiasco, the Tulo disaster, his horrible draft record where position players are concerned – while crediting him with a couple of good moves that he made in trading for Donaldson and dumping Wells (signed while he was AGM by the way).

            Somebody must have used the phrase ‘cherry pick’ in a sentence that Barry overheard. He’s never indicated he has any understanding of what the term means, and why one supposedly can’t criticize a trade and praise another. Kind of obvious why he hasn’t, and that’s because there’s no reason whatsoever. Barry tries to use phrases he’s heard others use, without being bright enough to understand context.

    • GrumblePup

      Tulo- 2015: 41 games played, 1.3 WAR
      2016: 131 gp, 3.4 WAR
      2017: 66 gp, 0.1 WAR

      Reyes- 2015: 47 gp, -0.2 WAR
      2016 (with Mets): 60gp, 0.6 WAR
      2017 (with Mets: 145gp, -0.6 WAR

      LaTroy Hawkins: 16.1 Innings pitched, 0.2 WAR

      Jeff Hoffman- 2016:31.1 ip, -0.7WAR
      2017: 99.1 ip, 0.3 WAR

      Miguel Castro- 2015: 5.1 ip, -0.2 WAR
      2016: 14.2 ip, -0.1 WAR
      2017 (with trash birds): 66.1ip, 0.9 WAR

      Jesus Tinoco: still in the minors.

      Yup the Jays got fucking fleeced.

      We got almost as much value out of 16 innings of LaTroy Hawkins as the Rockies got out of Reyes.
      We got more value out of 41 games of Tulo in 2015 than the Rockies got out of all of those players since.

      Complain all you want about his current performance, but also, you can fuck right off.

      • Nice Guy Eddie

        Grumble Pup’s not bright enough to notice the $100 million. He thinks Jesus Tinoco and Miguel Castro are significant, but $100 million isn’t. Clever guy.

        • GrumblePup

          If you’re gonna complain about a trade, look at the whole trade. Obviously Tinoco and Castro are not significant, but they were part of the deal.

          Also, sure, we paid Tulo $20M last year, Reyes’ contract was for $22M.
          I understand that we are now paying a lot of money for Tulo. But you’re acting like a)there was some better deal available to the Jays and they just refused to take it and b) that Tulo umm… made the team worse? Is that your point?

          But I’m also 100% sure you’re just trolling at this point, so like whatever.

  • fred2

    Tulowitzki has produce 4.8 bWAR as a Jay for approx $50 mill. Jose Reyes has produce -0.2 bWAR since he left the Jays for approx $50 mill. Feel free to suck everybody’s dick.

    • Nice Guy Eddie

      They’re not playing against Reyes, who Alex traded for shortly before and now his fans are defending him by saying he was junk. They’re playing against Gregorius and Boegarts, both of whom are far better, cost far less, than Tulo and were acquired during the time when the best Alex could do was trade for a $20 million a year corpse.

      And Tulo had a bWAR of 0.1 last year. Replacement level. For $20 million a year This year he probably won’t even do that. Worst trade in franchise history, easily. It’s like trading for the corpse of Prince Fielder.

      • The Humungus

        Now I know you’re an idiot.

        This is an organization that traded over 14 WAR and 6 years of Michael Young (at $10M) for 3.8WAR and 2.5 years of Esteban Loaiza (at $12M).

        If you think any trade they could have made is worse than that one, you need to re-examine your biases.

        • Nice Guy Eddie

          Wow!! Anonymous name calling on the internet! What a brave guy ‘Humungus’ is. Usually when there’s an ‘idiot’ in the discussion, you can figure it’s the name calling guy.

          If you ask someone who was a grown up at the time, and who followed baseball before 2015, Michael Young didn’t seem to anyone like a big loss. He was 22 in A ball, a 5th round draft pick who was behind others on the org charts when he was traded. Loaiza was a disappointment with Toronto for a few years, but the first year after he left ended up an all-star with the White Sox and came second in CY voting. Sure it
          s a trade the org wanted back, but it’s not like taking $100 million and pouring it down a sewer because the GM and the previous GM couldn’t draft and develop a shortstop.

          • The Humungus

            The previous GM had acquired a shortstop who’s ability to play baseball disappeared at some point between Oct 1, 2014 and April 4, 2015. One who SHOULD have been a long term solution at the position (because sometimes you trade assets for guys when your prospects go bust).

            I watched Michael Young play baseball when I was a teenager. He played in St. Catharines with Vernon Wells. He was a solid shortstop with a good bat then. Loaiza was a depth starter the team didn’t need.

            And who cares what Loaiza did with the White Sox? What bearing does that have on the trade?

          • Paul Beestons Grass Surface

            No we figure you are the idiot Fast Eddie! We want to talk about baseball but you are 9b oxious and a troll. That makes you a turd amd an idiot. Whine all you want about “…hiding behind the internet”. 5hat is something a whiny piss baby would say to make himself look better. Why don’t you fuck right off…leave the site and be a pain in the ass somewhere else!

          • Nice Guy Eddie

            You’re right Paul Beestons Grave, I was being a bit of a dick with you. In my defence though, it is funny watching a guy who, well, obviously isn’t the crispest chip in the bag so to speak, get all upset and try to type and gibberish comes out. Your post was gibberish, but you do show courage in trying to post with the others so I admire you for that.

    • Gavin Belson

      Reyes contract would be done by now, Tulo’s is still running strong.
      There is also the false dichotomy of Tulo vs Reyes in 2015 / 2016. There would have been other options available than just Tulo. Reyes was not the offensive force who he once was, but it was defense that was truly killing them. Finding a solid defensive SS , who didn’t even need to hit, is all that was required. Look at how many runs we scored? we could afford it.

      • Flash McLennan

        This is the point that needs to be made again and again. Getting Tulo wasn’t the key to the 2015 run. The key was *getting rid of Reyes*. There were arguably more efficient ways to do that.
        That said, I agree that this we are on the darkest timeline re: Tulo, hindsight is 20/20, etc.

      • Nice Guy Eddie

        Good points. All we needed, and all we got, was a guy to play short and not hit much, for a very short time. You don’t trade first round picks and pay $100 million for that! Most teams can fill that role internally, but even if you can’t you don’t take on someone’s $100 million salary dump.

  • Knuckleballs

    All I will say is, I like the stats and discussion, but at the end of the day who gives a shit, it is what it is. We should be talking about the hog shit of information being spooned to use from management regarding this injury all spring. Nice Guy Eddie please take a walk off a short pier. Everyone else stop fueling his shit. Lets focus on the present and the season at hand. I think to max value out of Tulo is to FIX this shit of bone spurs ASAP (surgery – to prevent any further Plantar fasciitis) and then focus on getting his ass back on the field 2nd half. It seems management has built up some depth that will produce better then goins or barney did last year thank God.

  • Nice Guy Eddie

    ALEX’S LIL NINJA: My Prayer to Alex

    Thank you Alex, for 2015 and for the rotting corpse of Troy Tulowitzki which stands as a $20 million a year memory to your greatness.

    Thank you for trading for RA Dickey and giving up a generational ace in the process. Without a 4th starter, we would never have gone from last place to last place in just one year.

    Thank you for all your great drafting – Deck McGuire, Tyler Beede, RJ Davis, Phil Bickford, Jon Harris, Jeff Hoffman, and all the great infielders (none) and outfielders (Kevin Pillar) that you provided us. It wasn’t for no reason that everyone rated the minor league system you left as one of the worst in the majors.

    Thank you for being Canadian Alex! if you weren’t we’d have to admit that you were just kind of a second-rate GM who made some good moves (getting rid of Wells’ contract, trading for Donaldson) and some very bad moves (trading for Tulo, not drafting any position players, trading Syndergaard), but overall left the organization in pretty bad shape with an old team and an empty minor league system. So thank you for being Canadian so we can pretend to ourselves that you’re a great Canadian and not just a largely second-rate GM.

    Amen.

    Alex’s Lil Ninja

    • The Humungus

      “One scout I spoke to commented Syndergaard’s fastball had the potential to be “Mat Latos Good.” And while that’s high praise, his secondary offerings lagged significantly behind earning a high leverage reliever projection from this particular contact. The number three ranking is deserved if one believes Syngergaard develops into a mid-rotation starter. If not, then Osuna, Nicolino and Norris should be higher than the big right-hander. (Mike Newman)”

      Lol. Generational Ace.

      • Nice Guy Eddie

        Sad. Now Humus is trying to praise Alex by claiming Syndergaard isn’t an Ace. Noah is. Alex isn’t.

        I’m starting to feel bad for poor Humus. He said he was a teenager watching Michael Young in St. Catherines, which was about 20 years ago. Whatever happened to Humus in those twenty years, one thing that didn’t happen is that he didn’t grow up to be man enough to admit when he’s wrong. That’s unfortunate. Trying to pretend that Syndergaard is not an ace, or that Goins didn’t outplay Tulo in the second half of 2015, is the same as admitting that the only way you can defend Alex is through a combination of denying reality and stupidity. It would be much more impressive, and his posts could’ve had some meaning, if Humus had been man enough to admit when he’s wrong.

        • The Humungus

          Are you this dense, or is it intentional.

          Syndergaard WAS NOT AN ACE WHEN HE WAS TRADED. HE DIDN’T LOOK LIKE AN ACE WHEN HE WAS TRADED. EVEN AT HIS BEST, HE WAS BEHIND SANCHEZ, AND BARELY AHEAD OF OSUNA.

          • The Humungus

            Christ. Here are all the ways your wrong:

            – Syndergaard wasn’t an ace when he was traded. He didn’t look like one. The fact that he MAY have become one is moot, because that was another teams farm system developing him into the absolute best case scenario, which, given your opinion of the previous GM, probably wouldn’t have happened in Toronto.

            – Tulo for Goins isn’t the player swap. Goins had his best production filling in for Devon Travis. You don’t make the trade, you still have Reyes being trash, and then you wind up with a guy like Cliff Pennington at second (and Tulo was significantly better as a Blue Jay than Pennington). Stop looking at it in a vacuum, that’s not how the world works.

            – If I was wrong, I’d cop to it. But I’m not. Goins second half has literally no barring on what Tulo did or did not do, because MOST OF IT WAS AT SECOND BASE, INCLUDING BASICALLY EVERY GAME IN HIS MONSTER AUGUST.

          • Nice Guy Eddie

            Don’t worry Humus. Your inability to admit even the obvious mistakes that Alex made – the Tulo trade, the Syndergaard fiasco – aren’t just your mistakes. If Alex had been a better GM, his fans could say “Yup, those were terrible moves, but here’s all the things he did right”. But they can’t, because other than the Donaldson trade and the Wells’ salary dump, there’s not a lot of talent acquisition/management to praise. So the poor Alex fans have to try to rationalize his terrible moves – the Tulo trade, the Syndergaard fiasco, the poor positional drafting, by simply denying reality. You’re not alone, you’re one of a group who think that because Alex was Canadian his bad decisions were anything other than bad.

            And Syndergaard was always an ace in waiting, from when he rocketed up the draft board in 2010. Alex didnt know what he had, or didn’t care, because he was apparently willing to give any one of Syndergaard/Sanchez or Nicolino to the Marlins in their salary dump of Reyes and Johnson. Here’s the link https://www.thescore.com/news/1015803
            Alex was indiscriminately trading Noah, Aaron Sanchez or Nicolino – he didnt care which – for overpriced talent like Jose Reyes and Josh Johnson. Terrible asset management, That’s why we’re stuck with Tulo’s albatross contract and why we don’t have Noah.

      • Voidhelix

        Syndergaard wasn’t an ace when he was traded? LMAO yeah that’s not even close to being accurate. Noah had 100 MPH gas with command, his production in the minors was ace caliber. AA offered the Mets either him on Sanchez. They were both being piggy-vack started in the minors, because AA ( for all of his scouting ability) had no idea how to develop starting pitching. Not an ace? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

        • The Humungus

          “The Mets also get a wild-card pitching prospect in Noah Syndergaard, a big kid who looks the part of a starter but doesn’t have the repertoire to be more than a back-end guy yet. Syndergaard has touched 100 mph as a starter, and will comfortably work from 92-97, flashing an average to above-average changeup and showing a very smooth, easy arm stroke that he can repeat without much difficulty. The Jays have worked with him for two-plus years to develop an average breaking ball, but he has yet to find one; you could grade his curveball as potentially above-average, and he has the high slot for it, but if he doesn’t have that laxity in his wrist there’s a good chance the pitch never gets there. He’s a solid acquisition for the Mets because of his size, delivery, and easy velocity, but he’s also very high-beta and could end up a back-end guy or even a reliever if that third pitch doesn’t make some major strides.”

          – Keith Law, December 17, 2012.

          Fuck you he was “ace-calibre” at the time. Couple that with the quote I threw from Fangraphs about him having “earned a reliever projection”, and you SHOULD see what I’m getting at, which is that you can’t say he traded an “ace” pitcher, because he didn’t. He traded a prospect with a big fastball and not much else. Syndergaard in 2012 wasn’t even as good a prospect as Nate Pearson is right now, despite being the same age and having more pro experience.

          Do some fucking research. D’arnaud was the “centrepiece prospect” of that trade, and he’s been a bust.

          • Nice Guy Eddie

            I did the research Humus. I pointed you directly to The Score article, which contrary to your claims states that Alex was willing to trade any one of Sanchez, Syndergaard or Nicolino to the Marlins for their salary dump of Reyes, Josh Johnson et al. Lucky for him they took Nicolino so he could go get fleeced by the Mets for Syndergaard, who the Mets demanded for a guy they wouldn’t give an extension to (Dickey). So much for your theory. Anyway, here’s a friendly tip. All the guys in the AA pyjama club who love Tulo wish you would stop saying bonehead things like the Syndergaard fiasco was ok. Even they know it’s dumb and it’s embarrassing for them to be associated with you. So why don’t you go read the article I linked for you if, as you claim, you want to see the research.

          • The Humungus

            You found an article written 4 years after the trade.

            That’s not research, that’s confirming your bias.

            Find me scouting reports from 2012 that refer to Syndergaard as a “generational ace” .

            I already found two from reputable sources written around the time of the trade that call him a back-end starter or reliever.

            You did no research. You found an article that confirmed your bias. Just like with Goins, where you use his full second half numbers to jusitfy him being better than Tulo (which is insane, because Goins was playing in place of Travis already when Tulo was acquired and could not have replaced Reyes).

    • The Humungus

      “Kershaw is so good that he’d likely still be the highest-ranked pitcher on this list even if he were right-handed. His combination of size, mound presence and stuff was the best the Minors had to offer. The fact that he does it all from the left side is icing on a pretty good cake.

      Kershaw, at age 19, was the best pitcher in the Midwest League and then seamlessly handled the jump to Double-A. His fastball-curve combination completely befuddled hitters in the lower levels of the Minors. Upon reaching the Southern league, he started to mix in a changeup, allowing him to finish second in the Minor Leagues in strikeouts per nine innings.”

      THIS is what a Generational Ace’s scouting report looks like at 19.

  • Flash McLennan

    “We know that Tulo is an intense competitor and it’s probably killing him that he can’t start the season with the team. While he isn’t the same MVP-calibre player he once was in Colorado, Tulo is still obviously an important part of this team, both as a player on the field and a leader off of it.”

    Umm, given what we’ve seen from Blue Jay Tulo, how do we actually know any of this?
    He seemed to spend 2015 pouting over the trade, never mind that he moved from a Rockies team going nowhere to a team that was the WS favorite by the time the playoffs came around. Not my measure of “an intense competitor”. He solidified the defense and didn’t hit all that much, but he was fine.
    He had a decent, but not great or especially good, 2016. Still can’t remember him smiling at any point, but he seemed less dour than 2015.
    2017 he was just god awful. Now he’s broken, and replacement level at best if he ever comes back.
    Honest question: how is he an important part of the team at this point? If he weren’t owed an unreal amount of money, I think he’d be more or less forgotten going forward.

        • Tuloshyperbaricchamber

          Look, clearly I like Tulo.

          The vitriol and heel digging on this whole thread got a little ridiculous. His past value and current value on the Jays team doesn’t sit on the extreme side of either spectrum. He costs a lot of money but has brought quantifiable value. He’s also an aging, injury liability on a team trying to get younger.

          He is a clubhouse leader and a great mentor to the younger players and that is great but it isn’t a quantifiable attribute.

          All of that is true. It’s also true that the FO has built in safeguards in the form of solid depth acquisitions. They very clearly see the writing on the wall and are managing the situation.

          Tulo’s value is depreciating and everyone on this thread knows that. Let’s just get the most value we can out of him and if he becomes a liability as a regular starter then I hope management adjusts their use of him and doesn’t block a younger player who is outplaying him.

  • Voidhelix

    So to Gibbons, aparently unbearable pain isn’t an issue. The fact that fat oaf of a good ol’ boy, and perennial imbecile, doesn’t get ridiculed and ripped apart fro things like this, is embarrassing. Obviously it’s not his fault Tulo’s crocked, but the disrespect he shows our fans every time he bald-faced lies, is excrutiating.

    • Steve-O

      Seriously, why do you post here? Why do you cheer for the Jays? Do you even cheer for the Jays? I don’t pretend that anyone has to agree with everything a FO does, or find every player or manager wonderful and faultless, but come on man you seem to literally hate everything about them and everything they do.

      If this is just you being a troll, then… good for you, you annoy a lot of people, congratulations. If you are for real, then I suggest you find another team and another website, maybe you’ll find some semblance of joy in your life.

      You bring nothing of value and are a parody of yourself at this point. I say this with all sincerity: fuck off.